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What was John's cookout speech about?
From : (Opening) (Scene opens: Palm tree blowing in the wind...) :Could this be the entry of the lord into Jerusalem? -- Fab 70.112.131.16 (Ramon says, "Hot Dogs, Hamburgers, Potato Chips. (louder) Hot Dogs, Hamburgers... Seconds will be available.") :Seemingly unimportant but takes us back to the wall and the outdoor festival/carnival feel, with the horses of the carousel to the hot dog cart. Seconds will be available... the first miracle in the book of John was Jesus turning water into and endless supply of wine. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 (Ramon asks, "Who's hungry?") :Everyone is seemingly hungry; is this more a spiritual question from the keeper of the motel (inn), Ramon, who wants to shelter and feed weary travelers? -- Fab 70.112.131.16 If my words are yours, can you hear my Father? :If I speak like you, will you understand the message I have brought? -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :What I took from this is a little different. I understood it to mean do the words that you say (and that I repeat) reflect the heart of the Father and goodness. I cite Matthew 15:11 as an example "What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.'" -- Smpdawg 23:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :I agree with this take... unlike the John of the bible who is very clear and straightforward, we have John Monad randomlly spewing out seeming truths and riddles. It brings the Christian mind to question, if Jesus were to return... would we recognize him and see God? -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :Jesus used parables to bring the message because the people of the time would not understand or perhaps would not listen otherwise if he explained directly. John uses their words or rather parrots their words and catch phrases ("If I speak like you") to capture their attention and build a vocabulary. In this way they will eventually understand his father's message and accept it as thier own thoughts. John uses these words seemingly randomly but as we see in this episode he assembles many of those phrases into a montage which becomes this speech. -- az Azretan 19 July 2007 :If my words are your words... A central theme of JFC God trying to communicate with us. And John's first question is: can you hear? Milch is not however going to give us some big second coming - rather he is suggesting that God is always communicating with us and that He is always there to be heard only thing is that it's hard to hear because He is speaking through others 0 just like us. Don't expect trumpets or anything like that. He doesn't ask if God can change his communication method but rather if He speaks through those around us, like us, do we have the ears to hear. 'He who has ears...' Tough to do. Can Bill know my Father, keeping his eye on me? :Can Bill hear the message (of “goodness”?) if he is suspicious and untrusting? Bill = Good man blinded by doubt and hurt. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) Can I bone Kai, and Butchie know my Father instead? :I think this means that John would rather switch places and be a person and Butchie have the responsablility of being the messenger of John's Father. -- User:74.123.65.25 :I think the message is if I (John) submit myself to temptation, will I be a good example for you? Will you hear the message from my Father. The best way to lead someone is by example. -- Smpdawg 23:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :John didn't bone Kai... he showed her God. The next morning he gloated that boned her (along with some other witty sex comment i cant remember at the moment). Will Butchie know John's father through his budding relationship with Kai. Love cures. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :I agree with the first comment, if we draw the christian ideas (not story arc) in alignment with this story that comment would be analogous with "if it be possible, let this cup pass from me" "Can I bone Kai, and Butchie know my Father '''instead'?'' Although it is hard to tell John's real thoughts because most of his lines are spoke without inflection or appropriate inflection (parroted without context) Azretan 19 July 2007 (Room 24) (John opens the door to Room 24. He carries out a man in gray with a bullet hole in the head and places him on a bench behind Butchie and Kai.) :John 14:24 "Whoever does not love me, does not keep my words, yet the word you hear is not mine but that of the father who sent me" -- Fab 70.112.131.16 My Father's shy doing his business. Kai helps my Father dump out. :It is hard to see the message I bring, but good people with their kindness helps to deliver it. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :This ones hard.I'll get back to you on this one. It could just tie in the concept of father/son unity, and segue into the hospital scene... -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :There is an ongoing theme about John "doing his business" and "dumping out" (taking a dump), first copying Butchie, later pretending to take a dump in a public stall, etc. John's taking a dump is a comic metaphor for God learning what it feels like to be a human being. If John = Jesus = God Made Flesh, then God is using John's body as a vessel for experience, so that God can be more like one of us. This includes not just experiencing emotions and temptations, but also experiencing what it is like to have a body, including bodily functions. In an earlier scene, Kai waited while John "dumped out". As Mary Magdalene helped Jesus (and by proxy, His Father) understand how to fully experience his humanity, so does Kai help John. -- rex Rexjak 19 July 2007 :My Father's shy doing his business. no grand displays of power, people must realize and accept the truth on their own. Dumping out as in purposely jumping from your surfboard when the ride goes bad. If God lives in each of us...he wouldn't need to experience bodily functions. Jesus came for us, not(directly) for God. Azretan 19 July 2007 Bill takes a shot. Shaunie is much improved. :When suspicions/skeptical people take a leap of faith, miracles can happen. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Did Bill shoot someone and regret it... i think i remember him mentioning something in a rant of his about it... Could that be a future tie? and the leap of fate of course. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :Bill takes a shot by bringing Zippy into Shaun's hospital room. Zippy kisses Shaun and Shaun is much improved - S User:64.132.237.210 Joe is a Doubting Thomas. Joe will save Not-Aleman. :Gees another hard one.??. alleman is an Afrikaans word meaning every each, everybody... Kem Nunn, one of the creators is a surf guy who would be have ties to South Africa. Joe did not save every one (his buddies) in Vietnam... -- Fab 70.112.131.16 Joe will bring his buddies home. :Joe will be redeemed. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) This is how Freddy relaxes. Cup o' joe, and Winchell's variety dozen. :Freddy, a criminal capable of, and used to cruelty, is human (and good?) too. He wants to help Butchie. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :The crook saved by becoming his opposite, a cop hence relaxing his soul? It's also what Bill brought the night the stood watch at Butchies place. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 Mitch catches a good wave. Mitch wipes out. :Mitch hits a high, but falls. Feels pain. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :You can go further to say Mitches injury is the wipe out of his career after years of good waves. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 Mitch wipes out Cissy. :Mitch spreads his pain to Cissy. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Mitch pushes Cissy out while dealing with the pain of losing his career. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 Cissy shows Butchie how to do that. Cissy wipes Butchie out. :That pain leads to Cissy hurting Butchie. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Cissy shows Butchie how to whack off, leading her to extreme guilt of molesting her son at 13, which causes her to push Butchie away which probably has something to do with Butchie becoming addicted to drugs to escape the abandonment of his mother. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 Butchie hurts Barry's head. :Butchie takes that pain and hurts Barry. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Butchie did something to Barry in High School..cant remember what though. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 Mister Rollins comes in Barry's face. :Barry ends up in Room 24 because of the pain from Butchie (somehow) and is hurt more. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Hmm that could be... Could Barry be the one who shot Mr Rollins... There's a strong sexual allusion that cant be ignored as well... or is it just a reference to seeing a ghost/inner demon. maybe all of the above? -- Fab 70.112.131.16 My Father runs the Mega-Millions. :Now there is chance for redemption. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Hmmm Barry won mega millions... more for the case of John as Jesus incarnate... -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :Could also mean that ALL good things come from God. - S User:64.132.237.210 (Interlude) (Scene changes to Vietnam Joe's van. John is asleep in the front seat. Joe and Bill watch through the window for John's attacker.) (Scene changes to Cass' hotel room. John enters, and tells her, "You need your camera, Cass." He leads her out of the room.) (Linc is at the beach; John appears in a reflection and says "Time to get back in the game, Linc Stark.") :What is the significance of John putting Cass directly next to the horse? Is this a "Four Horsemen" allusion? Which horseman is on a black or dark horse? -- Myxylplyk 19 July 2007 Fur is big. Mud is big. The stick is big. The word is big. :Human advancement moves slow. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Fur commenting on excess. Mud a possible reference to John 9:11-14 John being hear to clean the mud from our eyes, but also along with fur we do enjoy our mudbaths... Power hungry folk with their big sticks... the word/message of God is big... -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :Fur = prehistoric nomadic man using animal furs to keep warm. Mud = man learns to build mud huts, settle down. The stick = man discovering tools and weapons. The word = writing on the cave wall. -- rex Rexjak 19 July 2007 Fire is huge. The wheel is huge. :But some advancements are great leaps that move humanity forward. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) The line and circle are big. On the wall, the line and circle are huge. :Symbols and communication are important, and humanity has learned to communicate en-masse. A huge advancement. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Also, John keeps drawing a line and a circle with his foot. -- User:64.132.237.210 18 July 2007 :the line and the circle are mankind's use of symbols. that's big. "the wall" is the platform for communication from one generation to the next, e.g the caveman's wall and the written word. when the line and circle (use of symbols) are on the wall, then mankind suddenly has a record of history, which is huge. -- rex Rexjak 19 July 2007 :in a more immediate sense, it line and circle are the 1 and O of binary code, meaning the rise of the computer. "the wall" is the internet, a historical record of all of mankind's digital communication, enabling mankind to share knowledge and communicate like never before, present and into the future. case in point: here we are, figuring this out together on a wiki! and perhaps a future generation will read this and understand mankind a little better. -- rex Rexjak 19 July 2007 On the wall, the man at the wall makes a man from the circle and line. :In these communications, human beings can gain greater insight into their own condition. They can see themselves. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Remember the foot drawing that John and Shawn made in unison when they first met?... it was a man from a circle and a line... the symbol is also used in maps to designate an inn... possibly tieing in the motel again. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :and the Word was made Flesh... -- rex Rexjak 19 July 2007 The man at the wall makes a Word on the wall from the circle and line. The Word on the wall hears my Father. :Now they can spread a message. A message of good. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :While at the wall John made the foot giration and drew the man from the circle and the line. If the word means inn(motel) then all the attendees at the barbeque are hearing the father... wow thats cool... -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :Following from the previous verse, the collective intelligence of mankind is captured in the record of humanity that is the web and digital media. This digital record is ever-growing and evolving; it represents and codifies the life and spirit of humanity. As mankind evolves, mankind learns to hear God's message more clearly, and such awareness becomes evident throughout mankind's works and communication, hence is reflected in the evolving record of humanity that is the web. -- rex Rexjak 19 July 2007 The zeroes and ones make the Word in Cass' camera. :At this point in human advancement, a camera can spread a message. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Possible reference to feminist technology book of the same title... allowing Cass a voice, could be refering to her camera as a tool for monetary gain with a negative connotation... the scene of Cass in front of the motel sign while this is said is a past scene as well... gotta go check what they were doing at the time. as they start walking the background changes to them leaving Cass' hotel... interesting as Link watches them depart; immediately after they go back onto the park complete with horse, cement mixer(??) geometric lines drawn on the pavement, and Butchie and Kai sitting together reminiscint of the two of the side by side in Kai's traler the night they slept together... Back to "Seeing God" by being at every point all at once. genius. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :binary, dudes, binary... (language of computers) -- Mike User:24.9.53.20 19 July 2007 :yep - digital movie camera - 0s and 1s binary Cass' camera is a blunt instrument of the physical world capturing things as they appear...but not always how they truly are underneath. John later goes on to differentiate what Cass' camera sees and what his father sees (in my Father's word) - az Azretan 19 July 2007 In the Word on the wall that hears my-Father-in-Cass'-camera, the good one Mitch catches doesn't wipe Cissy out. :Things can change. We can spread that message. Mitch’s pain doesn’t have to spread to Cissy. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Cass' video footage she took at the wallwas very benevolent and religious... everything was happy and dreamlike... even when John entered the boxing ring Johns ends up just celebrating life and its good. Maybe thats what all this camera talk is about. It showing what life could be like in a perfect setting... -- Fab 70.112.131.16 In the-Word-that-hears-my-Father, Cissy shows Butchie something else. :In believing in life (and good?) Cissy can spread love to Butchie. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) In my-Father's-Word, Cissy shows Butchie in Shaun. :Cissy can undo that mistake. She has a chance to do right by Shaun, thereby redeeming herself. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) In my-Father's-Word, Tina raises Shaun at lunch. :Tina can redeem herself. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) In Cass' camera, Butchie lays the court out for Barry, and Mister Rollins watches, and he doesn't come on Barry's face. :Butchie can redeem his mistakes, making things right by Barry, thereby taking away Barry’s hurt. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :It sounded to me like John said "lays the cord" not court, and this is what the closed captioner typed as well. If that's the case, perhaps it referred to helping Barry and Dickstein with the guide lines Butchie was helping with earlier in the episode. Vislor 18:51, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Lays the cord... surf talk! Butchie didnt lay the cord and Barry hurt himself surfing hence the visions from siezures as a result of the accident... maybe Mr rollins didnt end up meeting barry and nothing wierd happens... sexual or mr rollins getting shot... still not sure. -- Fab 70.112.131.16 :That is interesting, but the transcript of John's speech, as published by Steve Hawk in his blog, reads "lays the court out", not "lays the cord". eegorr 16:02, 18 July 2007 (UTC) In Cass' camera, Butchie knows Kai kept the faith. :Butchie can see that he has people that believe in him. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) Butchie will understand that at least one person has always believed in him and still believes in him. Toesmom 19:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC) In my-Father's-Word, the Wave lifts them up. (John draws a stick figure on the ground with his foot -- a circle, a line, and then a fork. Palaka wakes up, and brings Freddy his saxophone.) :There is a chance for redemption. A chance to make things right and for life to be good for these good people again. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) In Cass' camera, Bill doesn't bump his head on the stairs. (The staircase from Bill's apartment appears in the courtyard. Bill climbs the stairs, saying, "I cannot do this. I cannot do this! I am skating on very thin ice.") :Not only does the staircase appear in the courtyard, but so does Bill! Remember that he was asleep in the truck with Vietnam Joe and John when all of this was going on. eegorr 20:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC) In Cass' camera, as long as he's being stupid, Bill gives Lois a kiss. (Bill reaches the top of the stairs. Freddy stands under him, playing the saxophone. Bill pulls a harmonica from his pocket, and plays.) :Bill, too, can be redeemed. So long as he has faith, he can relieve his pain and loss. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) In His-Word-in-Cass'-camera, the Internet is big. :The internet is a part of human advancement, but it’s no great leap. (It’s not huge.) -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) Nine-Eleven is big, but not every towel-head is eradicated. :? A great pain to a great many people is bad, but vengeance isn’t the solution. ? -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) In His-Word, We are coming Nine-Eleven-Fourteen. :? I don’t know ? Perhaps there is a chance for redemption for all of us in the future. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :It was speculated in our household that this was a reference to a biblical scripture 9:11-14. Probably New Testament? Maybe John 9:11-14? But of all the ones I looked at, Revelations 9:11-14 was the most intriguing with the releasing of the four angels sent to wipe out 1/3 of the world's population. Kilroywashere 18:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :I think that John 9:11-14 is probably what John is referring to - "The man they call Jesus made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see." John talks to Sissy about mud and then tells her to wash the gun, aka baptize it. --Smpdawg 23:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :While John 9:11-14 is probable, it's also possible that Milch was referring to Hebrews 9:11-14, which references Christ sacrificing himself to undo the sins of man. "How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God." Both passages seem to fit. Allusions to the guilt plaguing the consciences of the Yosts, the the possible sacrificial death of Sean abound here. Melissasan 00:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC) :"The end is near", according to John -- September 11, 2014? Not every "towel-head" is eradicated... instead do they get nuke capability and use it? Is this too obvious? eegorr 16:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC) :Someone on the IMDB forum noted that 91114 (9-11-14) is the zip code for Pasadena, California. Who knows if that means anything. It's not particularly close to IB or anything (about 140 miles). Room45 23:33, 18 July 2007 (UTC) :Although the zip code thing is cute, I'm going with John 9:11-14, at this point in the story it is about opening eyes, seeing and giving witness. ("See God Kai) While John does say "The end is near" he is usually saying it to Link. :He answered, "The man who is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes, and said to me, 'Go to Siloam and wash'; so I went away and washed, and I received sight." Azretan 19 July 2007 In my-Father's-Word, Bill sees how Freddy relaxes. (Freddy plays his sax.) :Embracing the message (of goodness?) people can break away from their prejudices and embrace their one-time adversaries as human beings just like themselves. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) Bill sees Freddy playing his sax and starts to realize that they may not be so different after all.Toesmom 19:37, 19 July 2007 (UTC) In Cass' camera, Ramon wants to know who's hungry, in the courtyard and Room Forty-Five. (Bill joins in on the harmonica; he and Freddy play together.) :In understanding and embracing the message people see the good people around them, who spread their kindness. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) In my-Father's-Word-to-come in Cass' camera, Doctor Smith calls Ocean Properties. (Dr. Smith stands next to Dwayne.) :In the future, Doctor Smith too will spread good. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) In Cass'-camera-to-come, my Father stares Not Aleman down... (Vietnam Joe is seen, standing next to Anglo, the man who stabbed John.) : Cass'-camera-to-come = the future as it appears today based on an unchanged story arc - az Azretan 19 July 2007 ... And Freddy sees Bill much improved. (Freddy and Bill finish their song, and smile at each other.) :The first part is not clear. Seems there will be a redemption for Aleman. Freddy will witness Bill’s redemption. (Or forgive his own prejudices when it comes to adversarial societal roles.) -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :I'm most interested in the different between Cass's-camera-to-come and my-father's-word-to-come-in-cass's-camera. -- User:71.115.197.134 You will not note my-Father's-Word, nor remember Cass' camera, but you will not forget what we did here. (The Yost family stands in a row, as if taking a family portrait, framing dead Mr. Rollins, and Butchie and Kai in the foreground. Then the spell breaks, and everyone at the cookout looks around, a little puzzled. The guests drift away. Barry smiles, and says, "We should make these cookouts a fixture.") :You won’t remember me delivering you this message. Or that it is a message to spread. But you’ll believe in redemption, and see how we affect one another. -- Swigin 16:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC) :Strangely enough, this line is also a reference to the Gettysburg Address: "The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here." Abraham Lincoln, Gettysburg Address. I thought it might be a coincidence at first, but it can't be, in light of the four lines afterwards: :Freddy: (to Palaka) And you’re even uglier than Abraham Lincoln. :Palaka: Which happens he’s got the same birthday as mine. February 12th, 1964. :Freddy: Yeah. 100 years after his murder. :Palaka: Both of us. :Room45 19:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC) :The Gettysburg thing is a nice catch. In general the cook-out occurred but not in sync with real time. Like a montage, elements pasted on a page. The cookout was a coalescence of the characters of this series in the courtyard but without regard for their actual local. The other thing '''John was speaking to us, not them.' Like the chorus in a Shakespeare play'' Azretan 19 July 2007 : Category:Theories